Meeting Before The Ball In Rebma

Random discussion, related to the game, but not really of a rules nature.
Benabik
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Re: Meeting Before The Ball In Rebma

Post by Benabik » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:30 pm

Benabik would advise against a strict vote. General acclamation (aka no loud objectors) should be enough. Strict and formal rules, particularly around rulership, tend not to last long around people with our levels of power. And anyone less than an Amberite attempting to assert power with strong objectors is unlikely to be terribly useful.

In that vein, I have no objection to the current Steward of Remba. Nor particular objection to granting her some formal powers, although I would suggest limiting her proclamations to her person, the realm she watches, and related topics. (Although he'd grant that last one could be quite broad.)

Also, I would assume that any champion would follow the typical rules for such: she can put one forward, but her opponent would be allowed to do the same. That seems to be a matter for formal rules for challenges and duels, which might not be a bad idea.

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Re: Meeting Before The Ball In Rebma

Post by Rasanam » Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:14 am

These seem like reasonable limitations. (Though 'related topics' could indeed be quite broad... but she doesn't seem the sort who'd abuse it, and if some Steward does at some point, well, that shouldn't be too hard to fix.)

As for champions: Yes, she can put forward a champion of her choosing, assuming said champion agrees; that's a right that any normal Amberite has. The difference here is that a Steward has the right to have an Amberite act as their champion, since anyone short of that is unlikely to have a meaningful chance against an Amberite. However, there's no guarantee of which Amberite, or that she'll get a choice of who acts as her champion if she asks for "an Amberite", or even a specified mechanism for choosing who would fulfill that particular duty should it come up. So, generally, if she can get some particular Amberite to agree to act as her champion, that will be the better choice. The caveat is mostly there so that, in case of a challenge, she doesn't just auto-lose if none of the available Amberites are interested in actively taking her side.

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Re: Meeting Before The Ball In Rebma

Post by Benabik » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:29 am

Perhaps the right to request an Amberite might be better. I'm not thrilled by the idea of having the requirement that someone fight for causes they don't believe in. But having the right to ask may result in delays on a challenge that wouldn't typically be tolerated otherwise.

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Re: Meeting Before The Ball In Rebma

Post by Rasanam » Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:27 pm

On the one hand, I can see your point.

On the other hand, if our goal is to create a position that has Amberite levels of political power in order to bring some amount of balance to the courts, that position has to come with some teeth to it.

Still... perhaps just the position having the backing of the current Amberites is enough; so far, there haven't been any (official) challenges between Amberites anyway, so setting specific rules to try and give the Steward a chance if things come to a challenge, may not even be needed.

Josh, what does Ashara think of all this? Part of the reason Rasanam wanted to talk to her was to find out what she thought should be done about balance between the courts (as Harrune pointed out: "It would be a bit hypocritical of us to make a decision of what's best for them in the name of protecting them from people choosing what is best for them."), and so far we've not gotten any answer to what Rebma wants, or even if Rebma sees this as an issue that needs to be addressed.

(As an aside: a challenge need not be a fight per se. A competition of artistry, or fact-finding, or a race, or a game of chess... all of these could be suitable challenges.)

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Re: Meeting Before The Ball In Rebma

Post by Draylen » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:54 pm

I think we're going about this wrong, and that part of the reason is because we're using the word Steward to mean something it technically doesn't. Ashara isn't a Steward of Remba - she's the Regent, meaning that she is a Ruler who will step down when a proper, Remba-aligned Amberite becomes Ruler. Provided she doesn't. Who knows?

Anyway. I would like to propose that each court has one or two stewards. These are regular people, with powers granted to them by the Ruler of that particular territory, much like, essentially, all Amberites are by Dworkin*. These powers also come with fairly obvious duties, and only the Ruler (or Regent) can elect a Steward. Sample duties would involve peace-keeping and taking care of the little duties of running the damn place, so we don't have, say, Morgana spending hours each day or days each week to go around saying 'The horse belongs to the crown since neither of you can agree, you dumbasses'. Obviously, Morgana can be replaced by any of the other two Rulers, and if the court is believed to be small enough not to NEED a Steward, then obviously said Ruler doesn't need to properly elect one.

I'd also suggest that the Stewards NOT be Amberites, for a handful of reasons. The most obvious one is because one of the things the Steward is doing is handling the trivialities of things. The Ruler looks at the big picture, gives this direction and moves just so toward his or her own goals for the City, but the Stewards would be the people who make it happen and who take care of the details. This might mean, in an incompetent ruler, the Stewards are actually running the faction, but for two things; a) We're all Amberites, but especially the Rulers, so they *shouldn't* be falling for something like that; and b) the position of Stewardship would be terminable by the Ruler (or Regent) at will.

An Amberite, if he believes a Steward to be behaving in ways contrary to the Ruler's desires, might be able to petition him or her for the Steward's sacking, but this would still be fundamentally at the Ruler's digression.

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*Yes, I'm aware that as Amberites, we're inherently superior to 'normal people'. But Dworkin is still soooooo ridiculously out of our power levels it's nonsensical to even actually consider us as anywhere near on par with him.

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Re: Meeting Before The Ball In Rebma

Post by Joshua » Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:37 pm

Ashara would be okay with having some real power in Rebma. She kidna has authority, but any visiting amberite can overturn her rules at a whim. Without someone capable of surviving the pattern directly, a consensus would prevent her from dealing with the worst abuses.

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Re: Meeting Before The Ball In Rebma

Post by Wyvern » Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:43 pm

Is that the actual problem here, though? As per this post, the people of Rebma are clearly upset. Have there been issues with visiting Amberites overturning her rules, or is the issue more one of perception than actual abuse?

Or is there actual abuse that's below the Amberite level?

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Re: Meeting Before The Ball In Rebma

Post by Joshua » Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:58 am

The main issue of the resentment is that the 'typical' atlantean view. Humans often see water as "let's dump our trash here". and The city of Amber likely lets waste wash right into the streets, down the ways, into the bay. In addition, you have the basic fisherman trade-war, where the fisherman of Rebma are required to sell some of their stock to the city (the city would starve otherwise, that's not nearly as abusive as it sounds, but does create resentment), and the fact that the "us vs them" does have a nice split of water breather vs air breather. Rebma has a strong sense of identity that the other courts are slightly lacking in.

Other issues are the ones who are envious that other places have Amberites (cause you're powerful); and those that resent all amberites (which is easier to do when you never have to really deal with them, and all you hear is gossip of how Amberites have screwed up the city).

So... yeah. Within that, even a single countermand of Ashara's authority in the most minor of incidents sounds like a major insult to the whole of Rebma. (BTW, anyone want to volunteer for having done that... let me know.)

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Re: Meeting Before The Ball In Rebma

Post by Rasanam » Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:38 pm

So a combination of perception and below-amberite-level abuses.

Then I suggest the following: a consensus of Amberites declares her Regent of Rebma, with full rights to make proclamations in regards to her person, her realm, and related topics.

And, privately, that consensus is to include that, when plausible*, we won't over-rule her without at least talking to her first. And if there's a challenge level point of contention, deal with that when it comes up rather than trying to declare any particular rules for it in advance.

Also worth considering: Should we ask Dworkin to provide her with a Trump deck?
Edit: current votes on this question:
For: Rasanam
Against: Benabik, Alystrakos
Ambivalent:

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* This caveat is here to allow for emergencies or other high-importance time-sensitive issues; an Amberite that is, say, busy fighting off some sea monster shouldn't need to worry about getting Ashara's permission to, say, order troops around, or civilian evacuations or the like.
Last edited by Rasanam on Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Benabik
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Re: Meeting Before The Ball In Rebma

Post by Benabik » Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:28 pm

It seems like something Benabik would have done when he first arrived, although I don't know if he would have had the authority before he walked Pattern and he mostly wasn't around after that.

Rasasnam's proposal seems reasonable to Benabik, although he'd dislike giving her a Trump deck. Wouldn't really fight the idea though.

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