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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:53 am 
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Mostly Sane

Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 9:39 pm
Posts: 1
The Gm and I where discussing claws this evening. the -1 refresh power. It came up that it is arguably the worst power someone could take cost to benefit wise. Normally this isnt really all that big a deal you take the powers that make sense and you make due, however in a system where this "loss" can amount to 1/7th of the total power a character can have for most if not the entire length of a chronicle it becomes rather significant.

For example why would having claws which currently are weapon rating 2 [non retractable by book i believe?] be meaningfully different from buying a weapon called a "cats claw" which you can get on-line for less then 100 dollars. Sure you always have the claws, but you can remove the cats claws if you need to appear more human. you could also easily enough enchant the cats claws to appear in your hand on command word. become invisible etc etc etc.

This is a discussion i was actually involved in on the Dresden forums before the official book released back when claws only gave weapon rating one. one of the suggestions i made at the time was to make Claws -0. In fairness to the pc [who is not myself] that has taken the claws power i would like to again mention this idea. If someone still wanted to have claws be the same -1 refresh and we all agreed that a weapon rating one claws is viable and fair, a player could still of course design or take an already appropriate -1 refresh power to complement them. Some kind of bonus to climb intimidate , or something like the last two options from the aspect of the beast power.

Summary: Claws are overpriced yo, the GM is okay with house ruling them if the players are. Thoughts comments, wild accusations that im a cheese weaselly power gaming rules lawyer all appreciated.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:03 am 
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Prismatic Pangolin

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:50 pm
Posts: 2283
My perspective: Claws are one of the weakest powers. I wouldn't mind house-ruling them to include a minor skill bonus (maybe +1 when climbing, or +1 on intimidate checks when you're threatening immediate bodily harm to someone who doesn't have a ranged weapon, or maybe both, or something)? I'm less certain about making them cost no refresh but only provide weapon 1, and I don't think it's appropriate to make them no refresh and still weapon 2.

However, the notion of houseruling them in some way is one that's at least worth bringing up and letting people talk about; for the record, the above post only exists because I encouraged him to bring the topic up.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:49 pm 
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Sane. VERY Sane.

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:32 pm
Posts: 610
Claws is one of the few Supernatural Powers based off the Mortal Stunt rules, namely:
Quote:
Give a +2 to an attackā€™s result, applied only if the attack was successful, under particular conditions. May have a lesser benefit in a secondary circumstance.
  • Example: Lethal Weapon - Your hands are lethal weapons. When using Fists to strike an unarmored opponent, you are considered to have Weapon:2. Against opponents with Armor:1, your Fists attacks are Weapon:1. There is no benefit against more heavily armored opponents.
It actually seems slightly better than the stunt and has the same refresh cost.

As for hiding them: Human Guise is a [-0] power, and I'd say that would make them retractable or similar. (Appear human until claws pop out of your fingers, and might have to make rolls to keep them retracted when angry as per Human Guise, p176.)

The advantage of the power over an item is that the power can't be taken from you short of serious mutilation.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:38 pm 
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Needs a Guide

Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:59 pm
Posts: 70
I'd agree with Benabik.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:28 pm 
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Missing Some Marbles

Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:08 pm
Posts: 215
Brian has a point, But also depending on th nature of the claws, if you think the power is not worth enough make them worthy of satisfying a specific "catch" depending ontheir nature.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:28 pm 
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Missing Some Marbles

Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:08 pm
Posts: 215
Brian has a point, But also depending on the nature of the claws, if you think the power is not worth enough make them worthy of satisfying a specific "catch" depending on their nature.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:02 pm 
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Prismatic Pangolin

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:50 pm
Posts: 2283
Well, thing A: most powers are worth anywhere from two to three stunts per point. Which means that, for a Power, claws is a bit weak.
On the other hand, I've been thinking further, and concluded: Even on a powers based character, if there's a stunt that's really appropriate to your character, you should have it - even if it's not the most efficient use of your refresh.

Thus, I will not be houseruling any change to claws; if you ought to have claws, buy the power already, and I don't care if it's weak for a power.


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