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 Post subject: Re: City Creation
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:23 am 
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Sane. VERY Sane.

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:32 pm
Posts: 610
Also, "less experienced" characters should also be less skilled with their powers. A less experienced wizard is unlikely to have Refinments, and is more likely to be an apprentence with less than total mastery of all Thaumaturgy or Evocation. Maybe a new were has better senses and agility, but hasn't masted them yet. (Which makes for a good aspect, too. e.g. WOLF AGILITY, HUMAN REFLEXES) If we're supposed to be less experienced, why should our magical skill outstrip our social or mental prowess?

On the other hand, if we're supposed to be the "minor-league power" or "supernaturally one of a kind" beings that 8 or 10 refresh is supposed to represent, why should the usage of that power be limited by lower skills? In the Dresdenverse (and often in reality), power comes with the gathering of additional skill, so the idea of high power but low skill characters rubs me the wrong way.

My character concept fits in well with the description given for "Feet in the Water (6 refresh)", as he's "just getting started with [his] supernatural life", but I can really understand the desire for the options that 7 or 8 refresh open up. My major concern is that the skill points and refresh were balanced over a fair amount of time and they shouldn't be messed with lightly.


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 Post subject: Re: City Creation
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:35 am 
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Sane. VERY Sane.

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:32 pm
Posts: 610
Quote:
Moffett Federal Airfield. Includes a few truly gigantic dirigible hangers.
Massive in scale, and far less used than it once was. Sounds like a good site for some epic battles.
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Alcatraz, of course. Not exactly silicon valley, per se, but there's so much potential to site icky nastiness there...
We should give some thought as to the scope of the game. On one hand, doing things over too large an area dilutes the action. OTOH, it seems like driving from valley to valley is part and parcel of the Cali experience. (Note: most of my time in CA is down near LA, not near San Jose/Francisco.)
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Cupertino
Also home to the mighty Apple.
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Evergreen:
the south-eastern section of san jose. Listed as "some of the higher crime areas of san jose" - if the eastern half of it got chopped off by the blast zone, that might increase?
I can't help but think that would mean an even more underground crime area inside the blast zone, in addition to the higher conflict caused by smaller space outside. Plus, displacing people out of there would also drive them unto nearby neighborhoods. Also, closing a portion of the city implies a lot of money, political power, or both.
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Alum Rock:
Primarily hispanic / latino. Probably got similar treatment as evergreen, re: blast zone. Alum Rock Park (definitely in the blast zone if the reactor is out that way) contains (contained?) some particularly paranoid private residences.
I imagine a couple of truly rich and paranoid people buying the rights to keep their land inside the blast area... Houses that have truly become bunkers.

Edit: formatting and spelling errors


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 Post subject: Re: City Creation
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:31 pm 
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Prismatic Pangolin

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:50 pm
Posts: 2283
Hm. There appears to be a bit of a disconnect here on interpretation of what the various parts of a DFRPG character mean.

Powers are (with the exception of Refinement & possibly upgrades of Channeling to Evocation or Rituals to Thaumaturgy) representative of What You Are. For example, a plain, ordinary, werewolf costs 6 refresh (7 if part of a pack); an inexperienced werewolf could represent that with lower skills and/or a trouble aspect, but simply can't exist if you lower the available fate points.

Skills, by contrast, are What You Can Do. There's a huge difference in power level between a wizard with conviction & discipline at 5, versus one with those skills at, say, 3. There are very few powers just plain trump skill - the strength series is the worst offender, followed by speed - but even those are relatively narrow focus things, and a highly skilled character is more than a match for even multiple low skill but high refresh cost opponents (for example, Kincaid vs. Denarians).

If anything, I'd expect lower skills to increase the value of fate points and mortal stunts; when your best skills are +3 and +4, an extra +2 from a stunt or aspect invocation is a notable contribution.

Also, I absolutely don't buy that the game system is fragile enough that there will be balance issues caused by lower skill w/ higher powers - if that was the case, they'd have rules for how many of which type of advancement point you get in what order, and how many skill points you have to gain before it's appropriate to increase refresh by one.

* * * * *

Anyway. That all said, wanting a lower refresh level for the game is perfectly reasonable; the hardest character to cram into a six refresh game would be Carbone's wizard, and even that can be managed by dropping down to Channeling and Rituals - which, as I recall, he's willing to do. So feel free to shift your vote down there if you'd like.


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 Post subject: Re: City Creation
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:10 pm 
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Sane. VERY Sane.

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:32 pm
Posts: 610
Quote:
Hm. There appears to be a bit of a disconnect here on interpretation of what the various parts of a DFRPG character mean.
Disagreement, perhaps.
Quote:
Powers are (with the exception of Refinement & possibly upgrades of Channeling to Evocation or Rituals to Thaumaturgy) representative of What You Are. For example, a plain, ordinary, werewolf costs 6 refresh (7 if part of a pack); an inexperienced werewolf could represent that with lower skills and/or a trouble aspect, but simply can't exist if you lower the available fate points.
A very fresh werewolf could, in fact, lower it's refresh cost by by skipping some portions of it's power set. Yes, the wereform grants Inhuman Speed, but when none of your training or reflexes take that into account, it's more of a liability than an advantage. Nearly every creature type gets better at what they are with time and experience. (Also, once you're up to 10 refresh, you're buying a lot of things like Refinement and higher level versions of your powers.)
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If anything, I'd expect lower skills to increase the value of fate points and mortal stunts; when your best skills are +3 and +4, an extra +2 from a stunt or aspect invocation is a notable contribution.
My character is designed to lean primarily on his skills. When I can only have a +3 or +4 in a narrow field, I think I'd be outstripped in many situations by someone with powers. Many powers give bonuses as well as letting you do more things: Claws give Weapons, Recovery gives consequences, and wizards get Focus Items.
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Also, I absolutely don't buy that the game system is fragile enough that there will be balance issues caused by lower skill w/ higher powers
I don't think it will break the system, but I think there was much thought put into to the current balance. Since I have yet to use the RAW, I'd rather not alter that balance. (And there are some notes about how frequently different types of advancement should be given...) Also, I think that if we're playing more powerful characters, we should be allowed to use the skills to back it up.

I will move my vote down the chart a little bit, but put it on record that the more detailed version of my desires is: "6-8, but if we're going to do 10 let's just do it all out."


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 Post subject: Re: City Creation
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:44 pm 
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Prismatic Pangolin

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:50 pm
Posts: 2283
Hm. I'm thinking the winter-y aspect should be something like Cold War of the Seasons. The silicon valley area really doesn't see much in the way of seasonal changes; perhaps there was some sort of localized truce that forced a compromise?


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 Post subject: Re: City Creation
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:33 pm 
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Prismatic Pangolin

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:50 pm
Posts: 2283
Notion I came up with: The White Council is (and has been for at least a few decades) running an Arcane Community Outreach Program (ACOP) in the area - based out of SU, and the brainchild of one of the local wizards, it involves finding and educating local minor talents. This program probably has a somewhat rocky relationship with whatever organization is based out of the Winchester House, even if only because the wizards tend to look down on everybody else. If the paranet exists, it's probably more tied to Winchester House than ACOP.

On the other hand, it would also force any wizards-in-training at SU to actually meet some of those minor talents, just because the introductory classes on lore, Laws of Magic, etc, would be the same for both groups. This may or may not be a good thing overall; there's certain to be some friction between those being groomed for full wizard status and, well, everyone else.

Anybody got thoughts on this?


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 Post subject: Re: City Creation
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:35 am 
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Prismatic Pangolin

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:50 pm
Posts: 2283
Notes from the chat last weekend:

• El Camino Real (mostly) follows a ley line. (There are some spots where the road diverges and you need to find old el camino real instead.) Used to be controlled by various missions, who consecrated the whole place. Currently carved up into sections with different faces in different places.

• A solidly entrenched black court scourge in the blast zone, specifically alum rock park; they tend to feed in the crime-ridden abandoned city sections within the blast zone.

• Not that much white court presence in the area; a few locals, a few out-of-favor hollywood rejects who went looking for new stomping grounds...

• Jade Court definitely has a solid presence, though they are (as usual) quite good at staying out of the limelight.

• Red Court presence not discussed. Assuming the vampire war has started, they're probably at least trying to get enough power into the area to take out SU.

• Blast zone in general is summer court fey territory; even the crime-ridden abandoned city sections are rampant with growth.

• We definitely want to do something with both Alcatraz and Treasure Island, though maybe not right at game start.

• Government has a strong interest in maintaining the current status quo, and, with the fusion reactor right there, has a fair supply of military and MiB type folks to help do it. There are heavy units available at all times to help deal with terrorist or spy activities - and those aren't just code-words for supernatural stuff they don't want to tell their bosses about.

• NASA presence at Moffet Air Base. I'm sure we can do something good with that.

• Local clued-in-mortals organization based around the Winchester House; overall similar to the dupin society as presented in the example.

• Locations include HMTI, SU, the fusion reactor, Mofett air field, google campus, Winchester house, city center, east palo alto and/or blast zone ruins (for "wrong side of the tracks"), various sub-locations in the two college campuses (engineering club, newspapers, SU chapel, etc.)

• city center area, on el camino, thriving by day, not so much at night. Centered around a really old church; possibly with an aspect "keeping the night at bay". At night you've got winter fey, vampires, and possibly other such not-so-friendly stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: City Creation
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:44 pm 
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Prismatic Pangolin

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:50 pm
Posts: 2283
HMTI campus security is well-paid and lazy; they ride around on segways and don't accomplish much. On the other hand, the plainclothes agents who watch over the fusion physics courses are not to be trifled with.

Despite being mostly underground, the HMTI campus is designed to feel relatively open; there are courtyards and plants scattered all over, real sunlight piped in from above (and very good fake sunlight where that's not doable), etc.

The HMTI Athletics Building is constructed as a sort of a vast inverted pyramid; the top layer includes the two major sports arenas (stadiums?) - one for football & soccer, one for hockey & basketball, as well as locker rooms, administrative areas, and a roughly one mile long six lane track around the perimeter. The next level down features smaller training areas, without the spectator seating needed for a major game, including one backup football field, two ice rinks, and three large general purpose gym areas. The third level is occupied by a single olympic+ size swimming pool. The diving area actually goes to a depth of about 40 feet, though the bottom is normally blocked off with nets for safety reasons, only being opened up for specific events such as advanced scuba classes. Fourth level has weightlifting machines, rowing machines, treadmills, and various other specific training type stuff. The fifth level is maintenance - air conditioning (some people think the building is over-air-conditioned, but most folks just bring a jacket and don't worry about it), plumbing, etc. There's supposedly a sixth level, but nobody seems to know what's there. Presumably just more machinery.
The top of the athletics building is a park; raised a good thirty feet above the surrounding terrain, but otherwise following the (former) natural contours of the area. There are lots of trees, and a pond with fish, and a stream leading to a decorative waterfall that splits around the building's main entrance.

HMTI Library: This is a small room tucked in with the school records and administration department; there are no books on hand, but it does serve as a nexus for inter-library loans. The real campus library is purely electronic, and protected by private key crypto systems so that only actual students or faculty can get at it.

Neutral Grounds: I plan on stealing this place from the Baltimore example; descriptions can be found on YS394 and YS386-7. I plan on placing this near (but not actually on) the HMTI campus.


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