XP and Character Advancement Discussion

Play by post Amber game, now in progress
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Joshua
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XP and Character Advancement Discussion

Post by Joshua »

I am torn with XP.

On one hand, I want to do an uneven playing field. Not everyone advances at the same pace.

On the other, the game is slow enough that I don't want to discourage people from rejoining.

So, at the moment, my thought is that I will give two types of XP.

The first is permanent XP (or just XP), this works just like the 100 points you got at character creation and can be used to but stats, abilities, powers or items. This adds things to your character sheet, and they become a part of you.

The second type is temporary items (or just items), these include characters, shadows and other things that you have a claim to. Without spending XP on them, they can be taken away with only a little warning. Of course, the more effort you put into bonding with them, the more effort it will take to remove them from you. They can be almost as permanent as actually paying for them, and represent a sort of free XP you get for extra participation.

Last, skills are free. With appropriate experience you may gain them whenever you want. This includes altering talents or quirks. With permission, you may be allowed to add a talent.
Wyvern
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Re: XP and Character Advancement Discussion

Post by Wyvern »

A comment on the difference between things (or people) you pay XP for, vs. things (or people) you find, acquire through interaction, etc.

Paying points is:
  • An OOC way of claiming "This thing is mine"; it offers the whatever some protection from being co-opted by the narrative and suddenly turning out to be a double agent / full of poisonous vipers / etcetera.
  • A way of saying "This is something that should exist and continue to exist in the continuing story of my character."
For example, if I paid a point for Nathaniel as an ally, then wandered off into shadow for a couple centuries... well, he's not going to be there when I get back, but, until I recover that point, someone in his family would remember me and continue to function as an ally.
Or, if Sadie's player buys the Steward of Rebma, then that not only says "You have a steward that can be trusted", it also says that, if necessary, there will be a whole line of stewards - and frees the character up to go on longer voyages into shadow, without worry that things will get mismanaged back home. (Of course, if some other power - such as another PC - decides to intervene... things could go badly - you might come back to discover that your loyal stewards' family has been forced into hiding - but they'd be there, waiting for you, and ready to lay down their lives to make sure you know you're walking into a trap. Or whatever.)
misfit
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Re: XP and Character Advancement Discussion

Post by misfit »

My two cents. I agree that it should be an uneven playing field. The more active players should be rewarded for that, especially when they do really cool stuff. I don't think think that we're advancing so quickly that someone who has been away but came back (or was just starting from scratch) would be at a major disadvantage. I think it will take a long time for that to be an issue. And even then, a clever player could get around the worst of that...not everything is about raw power. It's not just what you have, but how you use it. And of course a weaker character could seek alliances, etc.
Wyvern
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Re: XP and Character Advancement Discussion

Post by Wyvern »

Oh, and one more note: you can share the XP cost among multiple players if appropriate.

This is most common with shadows, or things / people with a quantity multiplier.

For an example, suppose Sadie and Alys decided to work together on acquiring mostly-tame sea monsters for Rebma. A point cost breakdown might look like this:
  • 0 points: It's a sea monster; fast, and big, and dangerous, and reasonably clever as animals go.
  • 1 point: Psychic Sensitivity: The critters are able to establish mental links with handlers - even those with mere human rank psyche - and can thus be much more easily trained or given orders.
  • 2 points: Shadow Path: The critters are able to travel to places they know, even through multiple shadows; may include some degree of homing pigeon ability; definitely includes some ability to tow an allied vessel from one shadow to the next.
So, one monster with the above abilities would cost three points. Up to a dozen would cost six points. A horde would cost nine points.

And the players involved could divy the costs up how they liked - perhaps spending three points apiece to acquire an initial breeding stock of six to twelve monsters, with the agreement that at some point Sadie's player will spend the extra three points to upgrade to "horde" quantity, as up to a few hundred of the creatures take root in the oceans of Amber and nearby shadows - but that Alys would still only have a handful of the creatures that would be personally loyal to her.

Or, of course, the characters could just go and find / make the things, paying no points at all... but that would make it much more likely that the creatures would start out unruly or that the plan would otherwise go in ways not intended. (A worst case scenario, involving PCs with large amounts of bad stuff who didn't want to invest yet more points, could involve Amber ending up effectively blockaded & Rebma under siege by an army of untamed sea serpents...)
Wyvern
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Re: XP and Character Advancement Discussion

Post by Wyvern »

On the uneven playing field thing: Yes and no. It's not a huge deal now, certainly, but it could easily become such after a while.

The main thing I'd watch out for, though, is being very careful about what you're actually encouraging.

Participation? Well, I can kinda see that - but sooner or later you're going to be waiting on a response from someone else, or just at loose ends with nothing obviously worth doing right this second and important events (like, say, the upcoming ball) incoming soon enough that you can't just wander off into shadow. And, given the slow speed of a forum game, you can end up stuck in this state for weeks at a time. Perhaps a participation measure based on multiple months of real time would work?

Doing Really Cool Stuff? Well... the reward for that should really be that you did really cool stuff; there shouldn't be an XP based pressure to accomplish something awesome every scene. A quiet discussion of philosophy, in which the participants end up going their own ways without convincing the other of anything, definitely has its place in this game... so I'd prefer to avoid a reward scheme that would try to rate "Well, this scene was awesomer than that scene..."
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Joshua
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Re: XP and Character Advancement Discussion

Post by Joshua »

Can toss in "catchup" xp for those who join late. It wouldn't get them up to speed immediately, but it would allow for them to get closer faster. Perhaps a 25% or 50% boost until they catch up.

For those who end up waiting with "nothing" to do... You can always do flashbacks, minor scenes, trump a random person, or make an alt in an existing scene (grab an NPC for a bit). All of which would be worth xp.
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Sadie
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Re: XP and Character Advancement Discussion

Post by Sadie »

I'm aware that different people have different schedules. I'm also aware that to some, this game is the last thing on their list when other things are going on. We all contribute differently to the game.

One thing is, however, true of forum games. Without an active community it dies.

I do not believe that one should get more xp for doing cool stuff. For one that encourages people to potentially act out of character to get "cool" stuff xp.

I do, however, believe that the players that keep the world alive by being more active posters, and making the effort to see that their thread is moving deserve a bit, extra, for keeping the world alive and vibrant for everyone to enjoy.

I'm aware things come up, shoot it has happened to me too in the past. But same as a job, I don't expect the same pay if I don't show up, or show up say hi and leave. I'm not trying to compare game to a job but it's the best comparison I can come up with right now.

I mean, say a player posts two posts each session? Do they really deserve the same xp as the rest of us, who pushed forward the plot and were there to be interacted with?

To keep a forum game alive, people need to post, anything less and it dies. Posting and staying active should be encouraged I personally love the game. It's why I'm an active poster. Will still be regardless.

I still think posting should be encouraged, that there should be incentive for people to post. Some people really enjoy the game and want to play it. Overly slow posting can hinder that. Even a post a day is a decent rate. A forum game that does that is flying.

And really if you have a computer and get on the internet anyway, lets be realistic. None of us have major reading problems, putting a moving things along post together takes less than five minutes.

As Josh pointed out once before a "Wait to see what happens" or the like post is still a post. It lets people know your character is being a wallflower because you aren't sure what to do, so they aren't waiting on you to post something. People will wait a long time trying to not be rude and give you a chance to post, all while you sit there deciding not to because you have nothing to say.

Long story Short:

I'm not talking more xp for doing cool stuff, I'm talking more for making it an active vibrant game world
Sadie - "You have the right to remain silent.
Anything you say or do can and will be held against you in a court of law..."
misfit
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Re: XP and Character Advancement Discussion

Post by misfit »

...and by "cool stuff" I did mean things that advance the story. I think we're all thinking the same thing and just getting caught up on the word choice.
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coldcandor
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Re: XP and Character Advancement Discussion

Post by coldcandor »

I love reading Wyvern's Completely Random Examples :) There's a reason RPGs in college were so much fun!

To be completely honest, I'd forgotten this was even a game, rather than an increasingly complex, interactively created, story. But perhaps this is only because PCs have not yet decided to go against each other (or the more powerful NPCs).

As to the actual XP discussion, I agree with Sadie. Stagnant posters (myself included) can cause threads to peter out and the game to become less interesting overall. Even when I do get a chance to come on and see things have moved on without me, the sense of annoyance is countered by knowing that when I *do* have time, I can be in a vibrant world with lots of options of people to interact with who aren't (no offense!) all Josh.

As to how to reward things, I would say the idea of temporary rewards that are only as connected to your character as the work you put into them sounds reasonable. There will have to be limits to it, of course, or a player could go off and write a hundred posts of backstory and build themselves an army, even if it's only temporary.

As with all RPGs, it's up to the GM to keep things as fair as makes sense and to completely go against their own rules if it serves the game best to do so.
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Joshua
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Re: XP and Character Advancement Discussion

Post by Joshua »

Odd, in the book, Corwin literally goes off and whips up a quick army. (They lose.)
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