07.13k: Of Moats and Marionettes

The goings on of courts
kitsunenotsume
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Re: 07.13k: Of Moats and Marionettes

Post by kitsunenotsume »

The maneuver, as did all of them, results in a deep contemplative silence of steepled fingers, breaking only once the Pattern-wielder has completed his explanation.

The reply is accompanied by a soft, mirthful chuckle as the grey attired man continues to survey the sparse black pieces on the now-desolate board before his half of the screen. "It has been a delight to be your opponent, Mister Harrune, as I had entertained a concern that only Lady Sybaris properly understood the implications of asymmetric warfare with such potential*; it is pleasing to find such concerns addressed."

"However, there may be some misalignment of perspective as to the situation. No matter is truly Boolean; no martyr is dead so long as he is remembered, no hunter alive without the thrill of the chase, every ally is a risk, and every opponent an asset. Should diplomacy fail, the only recourse is not required to be conflict - straightforwards though it may be - we simply negotiate the lower areas of the gradients. If an overwhelming permanent victory is desired, simply locate the target, shred reality into oblivion, and return home by dinner; problem solved, dirty but effective, the equivalent of tearing the board asunder to throw half into an incinerator. The state of nonexistence quite effectively negates one's ability to make war decisively, but what if innocents live in that umbral reality or one wishes to avoid the consideration of one's destructive potential. As your wording seems to suggest, either through morality or economic sense we come to the conclusion that going that far along the gradient is suboptimal and consumes far more than is desired."**

"As we retreat along the scale, we encounter more discriminate solutions - merely punching holes in the game-surface as strategic limitation, or the relatively benign flipping the table and casting all the pieces across the gulf of infinity. We could replace the player behind the game and play both sides at once, or replace the pieces with objects from another board. Even the boundaries of squares are simply arbitrary and instinctual divisions, abided by force of habit and the appearance of civility rather than any mechanical advantage; even after accounting for the two hundred and four marked spaces of which only one must be occupied, an infinite progression remains unlimited by orientation, shape, scale, tesselability, dimension, or discrete qualities."

"But we are pieces too, both the players and the game; we can't exercise our weakest power without ripples in our name. Between those who rule, and those who tool, and those who work alone, we strive and toil and risk ourselves to push back the unknown. What lies there in the great morass, the darkness between lights, we poke and prod and hope to find that nothing in it bites. And so a lantern child is lit from hues born of its mother to guide us out and guide us back and to the shadows smother. But each will cast its umbral rays as objects intercede, informing watchers in the mire of our intent and deed. A panacea it is not, the Blessing of the Sigils, a thought to keep in mind while we complete our vigils that if we tap such power without true need one attracts the blinded eyes of greed. You limit yourself, my Lord of Wands, and perhaps not without cause but if you've found your reasons just then stride forth without pause."

By this time, Caelund has apparently lost focus on the game, despite looking studiously at the divider. It is made rather apparent as he starts slightly and looks over his pieces again. "Oh, right, my turn, wasn't it?"
After 'promoting' his King to a pawn pulled from his coat***, he moves the furthest forwards of his all-pawn force one square forwards. "Not that I mind, but given your demonstration are you inclined to continue?"
_______________________________
*: It would be hard of anyone perceptive and close to Dworkin not to notice the sheer power he and his chosen can bring to bear.
**: These suggestions are made as though describing how to read a newspaper: obvious, simple, and entirely mundane. It certainly bears a critical undertone toward anyone who avoids the idea to avoid the blood on their hands.
***: The replaced piece is returned to the same internal pocket of his jacket.
~: See Unfinished Projects quirk - just because Caelund started something (in this case a train of thought) doesn't mean he has any intention when or how to bring it to a close.
Last edited by kitsunenotsume on Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rasanam
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Re: 07.13k: Of Moats and Marionettes

Post by Rasanam »

Rasanam attempts to draw the illusion back away from Harrune's pattern-charged hand - but isn't quite fast enough, and shakes his head as the spell dissipates entirely.

Then he shrugs, and sits back, watching the "game" continue, and idly sketching the scene, referencing both what's visible in front of him and Caelund's card.

"Hm. Seems like having a referee is a bit redundant for this game. I'd consider doing something about that, but it's so much more entertaining to watch... And informative. Perhaps," Rasanam nods at Caelund, "I should have invited you to play a game of go earlier?"
misfit
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Re: 07.13k: Of Moats and Marionettes

Post by misfit »

Harrune smiles. "We could continue the game if you wish, but since we have thrown the rules to the winds that would be difficult. A game needs rules or it is nothing but anarchy. War on the other hand is full of chaos. We may try to impose rules upon it, but it will rebel against them if it can. If we are to continue will it be a game of chess or of metaphors?"

"I am curious though Mr. Arctix, just how much experience do you have with shredding reality into oblivion as you put it? Or even poking holes in it?"
kitsunenotsume
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Re: 07.13k: Of Moats and Marionettes

Post by kitsunenotsume »

"All that is needed for a game is the evaluation for a player to decide that an outcome has value different from another. The act of participation was deemed to be favorable to rejection of the offer, and we walk away with more than we started with - if not in reportable gains then in the knowledge and familiarity of our opponent and their demonstrated tactics. War is no different: a victorious outcome is often of greater value than a loss, and both have separate values from a stalemate, alliance, or mutual destruction. While I may be solitary in the opinion, it is a fair observation that the only significant difference is the rate at which rules are elaborated. With many games the rules are made clear at the outset and obeyed and enforced consistently through to the resolution. More complex systems delay the onset of limitations, impose variable enforcement, or neglect to inform any players of their existence and leave such players to summarize their own hypotheses and regulations while they research and define the underlying restrictions. Under normal circumstances, the ability to impose one's will upon such a situation is a fleeting delusion stemming from a critical misunderstanding of the basic laws at work."

He ponders for a moment in deep consideration before continuing. "Perhaps an anecdote would be appropriate for elaboration of both the concept and your second inquiry. As I understand it, we have all stumbled our way through the gloom beyond the well-lit borders; none of us originated at this metaphysical campfire. Some carry torches, others read the dark seeking out the passageways once visited by a spark between the endless briar. We* had no such torch, relying on the fleeting trails of others before to wander through the mire. Upon the path one age we found** a soul that consumed all the mineral, plant, and beast it could desire. Our weapons fell short against the omnivorous host of amoeboid form, and a decision was reached to combat fire with fire. To the labs we descended to forge the simple weapon - a nanite detonator as an opposing rectifier. As the creature bore down upon our bastion, I held aloft the charge; two waves of dynamism crashed unto each other, t'was a sight to admire. Our inorganic tide proved the victor, but . . ."

He pauses, glancing to the others, "Are any of you familiar with a chimeric strain?", and continues on without more than a moment's delay.

"It was about then that the plan stood to backfire. The limiters were overwrote, the programming wore thin, the magnetic fields overwhelmed by the persistent multiplier. While left untouched we watched with pride as it assimilated the planet, and then promptly went haywire. A foglet cloud the mass of a planet, with neural pathways of exponential scale, It was clear what was to transpire. With unitary imperative and complete control of shape, the entity derived the orbital laws and the situation became dire. As it enacted its ability to egress to the other orbitals a solution was required before more than simply that stellar system would expire. The issue deepened when it began to anticipate our resolutions, adapting its responses to the exact degree it should require. Among the arsenal we brushed off a tool, one kept secreted for testing and trials, and touched by a power higher. The goal was to compress indices, forcing every scrap of its matter into a single condensed point and cleanse the issue utterly in a gravitational pyre."

Caeulung taps his chin in thought, before commenting casually, "Turns out it was moving the nearest valid index into the zeroth index, and not just the contents, and the for-loop ran like wildfire***. It took me half a galaxy to shut the rampant script down, and as the other side started to collapse we opted to retire. The malfunction was most illuminating, in what went right, what went wrong, and gave us answers for which we had not thought to inquire. Perhaps a bit circumlocutory, I will most certainly admit, but hopefully it conveys the answers I was hoping to inspire."

After a moment, he looks back over the board.

"I really should have saved a picture of that ultra-novae."

_________________________________________
*: While certainly not talking about the collected Amberites, the pronoun also isn't a royal plurality. It is therefore a reasonable assessment to presume Caelund refers to himself and companions of some form at the time. Or he is being deliberately vague and simply implying that possibility; either is equally probable.
**: It would normally easy to miss, but everyone present is probably capable of noticing the very slight stuttered ending, sounding rather like "founded". Up until then, Caelund's speech was nigh impeccable.
***: One might presume a Conjuration along the lines of something like [For each cm3 within 50 AU of stellar origin, move current object to the stellar origin and locate the next nearest cm3]. But the 'current object' being moved was the actually physical space, instead of the stuff filling that space, so the next valid cm3 is always the "first" and due to being filled in can never get 50 AU away from the stellar origin. The selected space is much smaller than a cubic cm though, since it needs to be small enough to dice the nanobots.
~: Also, yes, I noticed myself that Caelund was meandering off topic again; That's what he does.
[+] The Short Version
"All that is needed for a game is for a player to decide that two outcomes have different values. Playing the game of chess was valued higher than rejecting it, and now we all know a bit more as a result. War isn't any different; victory has a higher value than defeat, but the difference is how many rules are defined before you start playing. In most situations you know what everything can do before you start, but in realistic situations you need theories and experiments to attempt to guess at the rules - theories which may not be correct and experiments that reveal previously unknown rules."

To elaborate and to answer Harrune's question on what experience he has breaking Shadows, Caelund spins a tale - presumably one from his own history; filled with circumlocutory, loquacious, and generally unhelpfully cryptic language; and rhyming the last word of almost every line. The story is meandering, but describes how he and possibly a companion or two practiced "The old lady who swallowed a fly" with the tiers of Apocalypse How: starting from Class 6 by encountering (or possibly creating) a Tyranid/Zerg/Flood-thing, to a Class X-2 by fighting it with a nanite detonator that goes haywire, and treating that with a(n accidental) Class X-4 Conjuration that was supposed to turn the solar system into a black-hole but instead worked like a black-hole for the stuff that made up the shadow.

Caelund points out that the Conjuration being capable of affecting the shadowstuff itself, and not merely matter, was an unknown rule. He promptly becomes distracted again.
Last edited by kitsunenotsume on Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
misfit
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Re: 07.13k: Of Moats and Marionettes

Post by misfit »

Harrune listens politely, but it's clear that he's getting more than a bit lost in the jargon.

"So, it would seem that you have more experience in that area than I do. The next question would be could you reproduce that result intentionally in another shadow? Each shadow can have rules of its own. Given that our adversary seems to have been reshaping shadows to suit its own vision of what should be, it seems likely that it has the power to set the ground rules for those shadows. Advanced technology may not work. Shadow-based magic may not work." Harrune sighs. "There is still too much we don't know yet."
kitsunenotsume
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Re: 07.13k: Of Moats and Marionettes

Post by kitsunenotsume »

The man shrugs unappologetically.

"Frankly, Mister Harrune, I've not a clue. The outcome was hardly predicted in the first place, only arising due to a subtle misinterpretation as to the underlying equasions. As you point out, the most consistant facet of Shadows is their ultimate inconsistancy. The cosmological genetics by their very nature would require the evolution and adaptation of any viral agent to be ultimately potent in a given host. Short of developing . . ."

Caulund pauses, cants his head, and finishes an entirely seperate thought. "Bananas"

Dispite probably receipt of confusion, incredulous looks, or at least an upturned eyebrow, he continues in explanation. "While normal shadows cannot be relied upon to share a given vulnerability, if this Theotropolis insists on rendering each a likeness of its origin then presumably it enacts similar modifications to the control structures and planar properties. One of the unfortunate side effects of monogenetic series, perfect replication cannot be maintained without identical flaws and weaknesses."

He ponders a bit more. "So I'm going to need a bana- test subject. Definitely a test subject. Probably not the banana; unless I get hungry. Right, anyhow, do you think it would be probable to capture a drone?"
Last edited by kitsunenotsume on Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rasanam
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Re: 07.13k: Of Moats and Marionettes

Post by Rasanam »

Rasanam laughs as the context of "Bananas" is explained.

"I'm not sure capturing a 'drone' is practical, though - at least from what I've heard described of the first encounter, you'd need Theotropolis to be actively controlling someone for it to count, and at that point we'd be talking about open hostilities. Now, what might help is examining one of its conduits; we could easily do something like... oh, declaring Lane an ambassador and shutting down most or all of his churches as 'unlicensed foreign properties' or the like, and then you could take apart one of its phones. Or we could Pattern-walk to a piece of its outlying regions and trump you in to examine the local reality; that's a trip I'm kindof planning on making at some point anyway..."
misfit
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Re: 07.13k: Of Moats and Marionettes

Post by misfit »

"Or you could just bring him along on the walk out. The most important thing is to not draw attention, whether going in person or examining the conduit. Based on my experience, if it brought its full force to bear I could not have survived. That is something we will have to plan around. I don't know enough about magic to know what defenses we could create."

"I'm not saying this is a bad idea, just that it needs to be done very carefully."
kitsunenotsume
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Re: 07.13k: Of Moats and Marionettes

Post by kitsunenotsume »

Caelund nods at Harrune's comment. "If it is all the same to you, walking would be preferred. As convenient as instantaneous translocation can be, greater discretion and reliability can often be managed by simply entering through the back-door*. Besides, never know when some random proselyter got ahold of your SIN." He glances over to Rasanam's sketchpad momentarily as he moves another pawn in idle distraction**.

"Declaring Lane an ambassador seems like freely ceding to this entity a legitimacy that cannot easily be rescinded in the event of more open hostilities. It might be viable as a leverage for the diplomacy, but should probably be avoided if we can. After all, any one of you could just declare that his churches and their contents are not his property any more and proceed from there without making him an ambassador of anything. I personally would prefer to remain unknown by his ilk. Hopefully none of you object to such a discretion."
_____________________________
*: There is a distinct undertone that Caelund isn't as concerned about Theotropolis as much as he is about the assembled allies, at least in this context.
**: Apparently something he's been doing at regular and regulated intervals, regardless of Harrune's own maneuvers.
misfit
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Re: 07.13k: Of Moats and Marionettes

Post by misfit »

"Hmmm...I suppose that one of the peace delegation could offer him the title of ambassador. It might be a useful gesture on the diplomatic front. If open war breaks out, an ambassador can imprisoned, exiled or even executed. That raises the moral question of what sort of precedent do we wish to set? And you are correct, any Amberite can seize the properties in question on a whim. They could state any pretext they want, including something as trivial as 'it was blocking my view'. Granted, that brings us back to the question of precedents. The biggest constraints there are the ones we choose for ourselves."

"As for your desire for discretion, I would definitely support that. It always helps to have a holdout weapon your enemy is unaware of. At this point our peace delegation isn't even aware that you are meeting with us. There is no way the could accidentally give you away. I intend to avoid direct contact with our adversary until and unless we are at open war, and even then I would prefer to strike from afar."

Harrune is continuing to play, but since the rules have become...fluid...he is playing much more casually.
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