City Gangrel

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Joshua
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City Gangrel

Post by Joshua »

This is not the final form of the bloodline, as this is no longer NPC only, I'll be running it past our Cheeseometer. This is for design discussion, when it's finalized, I'll either make a thread or put it on the House Rules section.

City Gangrel
Disciplines: Animalism, Celerity, Obfuscate, Protean
A City Gangrel loses his Resilience and become more defensive, preferring to flee rather than confront in the big city.
A City Gangrels Obfuscate, while it is functionally the same, actually involves blending in and altering oneself, not more traditional invisibility. this allows for a unique devotion or two.

The founder of this bloodline is mysterious and elusive. for some reason though, he seems to have left one or two childer around.

Possible devotion:
Gargoyle Form: Obfuscate 2, Protean 2*
* (Must be able to meld with Stone)
Cost 1 Blood
Action: Reflexive
The moment sunlight strikes your body, you can assume the form of a stone statue or grotesque, exuding a shell of stone. In this form you have Hardness 5 and are unaffeted by the sun's rays. In addition, unless you're in a truely unusual place or someone is specifically looking for gargoyles, any attempt to realize that there wasn't a statue there before is penalized by your obfuscate. Unfortunately, you cannot awaken so long as sunlight still strikes your body.
While called gargoyle form, you technically become a grotesque.
This power takes 12 xp to learn.

Skitter Thrash: Celerity 1 "Obfuscate" 2;
Cost: -
A City gangrel is a creature of flight. Blending in with the city, and vanishing without a trace. No matter what, a City Gangrel cannot lose 10 again when it is hiding or fleeing (which includes breaking grapples, but not dodging).
Costs 9 XP to learn.

Wings: Protean 3, "Obfuscate" 1
Cost: 1 blood
Action: instant.
The user sprouts gargoyle-like wings, similar to how one might using partial transformation. These wings are not capable of flight, but add to jumping and do allow the user to glide.
This power costs 12 xp to learn.
duncan
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Re: City Gangrel

Post by duncan »

Thoughts on "Obfuscate" - While the stat mechanics for it are the same, it mechanically is an adaptation of self manipulation (similar to protean) used to change appearance. As such, it should benefit from affecting cameras, however it would only work personally. Level 1 would only work on objects held/carried of a size appropriate to the form. Similarly, although a natural avoidance is still there (or else it's just dumb and annoying), the mind-clouding effects are not, so vanishing does not remove memories, you just fade out of sight. These things should be enough to mitigate the advantages of affecting cameras.
Finally Cloak the Gathering makes absolutely no sense given the above. My thought is a power to improve upon the above, granting a couple of defense points (3 or 4 perhaps) if "Obfuscate" is broken, such as when the user is attacked / attacks. User is still physically (mostly?) invisible, but his presence becomes obvious to combatants. So, a defense bonus. "Unseen Assailant" would be a good name for this power.
I think Chameleonism is a possible name for this power.

I have no idea what is meant by the power "Skitter Thrash".

Bloodline still needs a weakness, I kinda like the rage frenzy => fear frenzy thing, although it does seem a little steep. Or perhaps a penalty to resist fear frenzy.
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Joshua
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Re: City Gangrel

Post by Joshua »

There are a few situations and powers that remove the ability to pull a second time after pulling a 10. Exhaustion, daylight, and a few hex powers do this. They are not all that common. Skitter Thrash states they simply fail against you in the context of flight and fleeing, as you can always pull a second time if you pull a 10. The devotion is a little pricey at 9xp, and might be expanded to also reduce penalties up to your rating in obfuscate.
A non-bloodline specific version of that might be possible, but would require obfuscate 3.

The Obfuscate power does work similarly... Those filming you or watching the character miss that you are there, (per normal obfuscate) and only when they go back and review the tapes is it possible to notice that you were there. The obfuscate replaced by the typical vampiric blur (unless you spend a will, and even that fades after a while, leaving the blur). There are already devotions which make the vanishing effect permanent (or at least, last for several months to a year), so I don't see much need to adjust that. It's possible that such a devotion might be less expensive for this bloodline however. (similar to how the wings are a cheaper version of partial transformation.)

For the object hiding, there are two ways this can work.. My initial thought was that the chameleon effect can be extended beyond yourself, both for items and for people.

It was not intended as a purely physical power, so for example, people still avoid you in crowds, you don't have to worry about making stealth rolls to avoid making noise, and similar.

I can see about changing that if you'd prefer, but then I'd have to worry about what happens if you learn both that and "normal" obfuscate, and can you combine them.

I was going to ask Aaron about the bloodline flaw, he's usually really good about what is balanced and fun. My leaning (okay okay, my irrational obsession) is with being unable to awaken during the day, hence why the gargoyle form devotion was developed.

After talking to Aaron, here is my thought:
The bloodline (and in fact the founder) is based on fear and hiding. In many ways this fear infects the City gangrels blood, and in some cases their beast. While they can still hunger frenzy as normal, a City gangrel can no longer anger frenzy. Instead there is only fear, and any time they would anger frenzy, they instead fear frenzy.
(Note, the frenzy from predator's taint is a hunger frenzy.) This also prevents riding the wave or embracing the red surrender unless such effects are targeted at flight rather than fight.

The unable to awaken is a side effect of the gargoyle devotion, as it cannot be turned off so long as sunlight still falls on it.
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Joshua
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Re: City Gangrel

Post by Joshua »

For Skitter Thrash, it occurs to me that the Gangrel Clan flaw affects obfuscate. So, this restores the city gangrel's ability to pull 10 again for the various obfuscate powers that are based on Wits and Int. (read: all of them) It also allows you to pull 10 again on a clash of wills (if you're defending with obfuscate. If you are the one using Auspex, it doesn't help you.)
That's worth 9xp.
jaf
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Re: City Gangrel

Post by jaf »

just a few observations... the first devotion uses obfuscate and protein, meaning that it alters the form of the vampire and the perception of people around you, basically if you meld into stone it looks like your a gargoyle in the stone? or your literally turning into stone? if so then you need at least 2 points in resilience to make it a updated version of partial transformation. If is the first one you will need stone as big as you or process stone to make it easier ( its a city), To my next point is the sun if it touches you using this devotion it still damages you because your altering your form in the minds of others, though if you do the prior then it will be more possible. In another note i think i saw a devotion like that...
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Re: City Gangrel

Post by Benabik »

The mechanical effect of Haven of Soil is that you can hide away from the sun during the day, so I see no reason to add Resilience to the discipline. Instead of merging into the building, you are visible.

Upside: Building doesn't have to be made of something you can merge into.
Downside: Your hiding spot is visible.
jaf
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Re: City Gangrel

Post by jaf »

true, as long as there is soil in the vicinity in this case stone... though is a merge not a transformation, if you are going to do a change in the body the most logical should be resilience not obfuscate because obfuscate is more of a mental skill in which you are ignored or looked over but still there. Also if you want to be looked as something that your not it should be obfuscate 4 in the vtr mind eye handbook is different from the pen and paper one.
i am just saying as a observation if you want to transform into stone is more a transformation type of thing, not a meld into thing, and also is a body transformation not a mental view of how you are looked at. apart from this it looked like a devotion i say in ancient mysteries its called gargoyle watch. its 5 protein and 3 resilience 27 exp...
jaf
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Re: City Gangrel

Post by jaf »

another thing isn't wings a variation of partial transformation difference being the wings are made of stone?
How about an idea for devotion, using obfuscate and dominate or nightmare basically it transforms the person into stone or starts to do so or he think he is turning to stone and becomes immobile for a couple of turns, or scene. maybe using 2 nightmare and 3 obfuscate as long as the target is in the area he believes he is turning to stone depending on his resolve.
duncan
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Re: City Gangrel

Post by duncan »

Hence why I was thinking "Obfuscate" would be more of a physical transformation that has some minor mental effects. Mostly just the effect that it still has avoidance for level 3. The thought was twofold - first, it makes sense as a "dealing with the city better" if physical transformation were consistent when later reviewed on tape, or thematically, you actually physically become what you are posing as, instead of mind-tricking people which is fallible. Not to say it affects Auspex differently mechanically. Second, it makes a lot of the devotions make more sense to mix in "Obfuscate" if it is actually a physical change. Statue form is a combination of changing your skin to rock and the protective powers of haven of earth. Perhaps having to spend a blood for the higher level powers would balance the "affecting cameras" aspect of the power?

As to buying both forms of Obfuscate, I would suggest only having the "better" power apply, i.e. you draw once with the higher rating power. I don't foresee the desire (for sane people at least) to buy high levels in both since Obfuscate would be out of clan, and almost identical in effect. And, as it's a bloodline discipline, "Obfuscate" would be unlearnable by non-city-gangrel.

Alternately, it could just be vanilla obfuscate, and I could develop a devotion for Protean / Obfuscate that makes my skin take on the form I'm masking as (or invisible). But, then, anyone could learn that... and the whole premise of some of the custom devotions for city gangrel is based on them having a special power that enables them to do stuff differently.

Either way, there's plenty of time to decide still. It will be a while before I even know that I can buy it, and I figure once I know that I'm actually different somehow I'll need to hunt down a relative to figure out how/why. An interesting prospect in itself. Plenty of other stuff to buy in the meantime.
Michael
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Re: City Gangrel

Post by Michael »

and now for something completely diffrent...

Gargoyle Form...IMHO i feel that OB 2, PR 2 a little cheap...
well the protean 2 part atleast. ptorean 2 allows you to change your nails into HUGE sharpe pointy claws. not change your whole body...IMHO i feel that in order to change your ENTIRE body id be protean 4...you know the power that changes your body into something else...the same thing that Devotion is supposed to do.
Personaly i could see it bieng eather way you want obfuscate to work, changing your skin or making them think that you changed your skin. but again Obfuscate 2 is not the right power level, you'd need like obfuscate 4. were you make them think that your someone else...that one seams to fit better IMHO...i think that it kinda sux, cuz that would bump it up to Ob 4 and Pr 4. not sure the xp cost though i bets its a lot. but it does alow you to beat the sun...and that's just plan spiffy...

Wings...WHF is obfuscate doing in there anyways...your not hiding the wing...your growing them. id say leave wings as per partial transformation. theres really no need to make a new devotion that another one already does, now is there...

City Gangrel...ok now this idea i like. I've played City Gangrel and its one bloodline that ive been thinkng about for a while.
First that only bieng able to Fear frenzy flaw idea blows ass... i mean TOTAL SUCK...when i think of City Gangrel I dont think of Skittlring rats or Cockroaches that hide and run form that light and everything...I think of Bad ass City Hunters, who use the urban jungle as there hunting ground. the true masters of the urban jungle. not fearful, scared, pathetic vampires running from every load noise.
Don't know what else to give him...the old ventrue feeding restricting? umm...a negitive mod to there frenzy pulls? not bieng able to spend willpower on frenzy pulls. Hell my old city Gangrel "spyder" would have had the Nelepsi's flaw outs Bloodlines the Hidden.( dont know the pg # off the top of my head) basicly it forces them to spend blood each night = to the blood potency...total gluttons. accualy thats a good one IMHO. there city predators, make them have to hunt...A LOT!!! :lol:
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