rules questions...

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duncan
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rules questions...

Postby duncan » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:52 am

Shadow of the Beast - Wolf form: does it affect acting speed or just running speed, and in what fashion? Bat form: what does this translate to in acting / running speed, rather than MPH?

Celerity - How does it affect running speed? The rules page is a bit unclear... I think it reads (normal running speed calculation) + 2*Celerity (which is sane).

duncan
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Re: rules questions...

Postby duncan » Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:45 pm

Further question / thought:

In the errata, it is stated, no defense reduction per attack. Does this also mean no attack pool reduction per (on the second) attack? It would seem fair considering normally, these two penalties balance. As in, second attack is normally -1 attack, -1 defense, which results in the same die pool as the first attack.

Duncan

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Re: rules questions...

Postby Benabik » Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:07 pm

duncan wrote:Shadow of the Beast - Wolf form: does it affect acting speed or just running speed, and in what fashion? Bat form: what does this translate to in acting / running speed, rather than MPH?

Assuming you mean Shape of the Beast, the MET Requiem book states "As a wolf, the vampire’s [...] Running Speed is doubled".

duncan wrote:Celerity - How does it affect running speed? The rules page is a bit unclear... I think it reads (normal running speed calculation) + 2*Celerity (which is sane).

Activating Celerity adds it's rating to your acting speed (one of very few ways to increase it) and adds it's rating to your running speed before doubling. The example from Requiem is that a Running Speed of 12 becomes 30 when using Celerity 3: (12 + 3) * 2

Yes, this means kindred in wolf form invoking Celerity can move ridiculously quickly. They double their running speed, add Celerity, and then double again. This can breech the Masquerade.

duncan wrote:In the errata, it is stated, no defense reduction per attack. Does this also mean no attack pool reduction per (on the second) attack? It would seem fair considering normally, these two penalties balance. As in, second attack is normally -1 attack, -1 defense, which results in the same die pool as the first attack.

No, second attacks granted by fighting styles still suffer a penalty and people mobbed by five people still apply their full Defense against all five (or more) attacks. Yes, this makes second attacks from fighting styles slightly weaker. I have no issue with this.

duncan
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Re: rules questions...

Postby duncan » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:21 pm

Benabik wrote:
duncan wrote:Shadow of the Beast - Wolf form: does it affect acting speed or just running speed, and in what fashion? Bat form: what does this translate to in acting / running speed, rather than MPH?

Assuming you mean Shape of the Beast, the MET Requiem book states "As a wolf, the vampire’s [...] Running Speed is doubled".


Yes, but it's pronounced "Shadow of the Beast". Anyway, so it has no effect on acting speed either? Wow, I never though bat form would be the vastly superior version of this power... (Flying at any reasonable speed is pretty much always better than any amount of running, bats get a better sensory bonus, and don't get me started on how wolf claws are a better weapons than a wolf bite). I thought it would modify acting speed as a "species factor", essentially, quadrupeds move faster (see the example for dog).

Benabik wrote:
duncan wrote:Celerity - How does it affect running speed? The rules page is a bit unclear... I think it reads (normal running speed calculation) + 2*Celerity (which is sane).

Activating Celerity adds it's rating to your acting speed (one of very few ways to increase it) and adds it's rating to your running speed before doubling. The example from Requiem is that a Running Speed of 12 becomes 30 when using Celerity 3: (12 + 3) * 2


Is running speed always doubled? I certainly hope celerity 1 isn't the magic 5-7 XP of doubling your speed, followed by very small improvements at each extra level.

Benabik wrote:No, second attacks granted by fighting styles still suffer a penalty and people mobbed by five people still apply their full Defense against all five (or more) attacks. Yes, this makes second attacks from fighting styles slightly weaker. I have no issue with this.


Fair enough. Wasn't sure.

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Re: rules questions...

Postby AWC » Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:15 pm

Remember for bat form health levels are based on size. So you lose on average 4 health levels when you go to bat. Size 5 to size 1 I believe.

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Re: rules questions...

Postby Benabik » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:54 pm

duncan wrote:
Benabik wrote:Activating Celerity adds it's rating to your acting speed (one of very few ways to increase it) and adds it's rating to your running speed before doubling. The example from Requiem is that a Running Speed of 12 becomes 30 when using Celerity 3: (12 + 3) * 2


Is running speed always doubled? I certainly hope celerity 1 isn't the magic 5-7 XP of doubling your speed, followed by very small improvements at each extra level.


It does, in fact, provide an awesome doubling of running speed at first level, followed by +2 steps per additional. However, the major benefits of further levels is the increase in initiative, acting speed, and attack penalties.

duncan
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Re: rules questions...

Postby duncan » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:55 pm

AWC wrote:Remember for bat form health levels are based on size. So you lose on average 4 health levels when you go to bat. Size 5 to size 1 I believe.


Yes but if health levels are the concern, staying in homid form would be best. Although, I guess, the situation would apply if too damaged to turn bat to flee, turning wolf to flee would be an alternative. I think the point though, is wolf form is really not a "fighting" form. It's more of a different type of flight form.

Frank G.
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Re: rules questions...

Postby Frank G. » Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:46 am

Yeah but you don't lose 4 health levels for changing for when it comes to damage. Turning to a bat isn't going to knock you into torpor and I find it more than reasonable that if you want to turn into a tiny fast moving target to flee a scene as more than reasonable for the level power that it is. So yeah protean and celerity = fair escape = cool in my book.

Michael
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Re: rules questions...

Postby Michael » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:38 am

What about Shadow Step? fair escape or what?

duncan
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Re: rules questions...

Postby duncan » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:47 am

The rules were modified in the errata. You do change health levels when you transform into bat / wolf, it was just left out of the vampire book. But the main point was, that wolf form is kinda pointless.


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