Rules Changes

Discussion about the game: rules, character descriptions, questions, etc
Frank G.
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Rules Changes

Postby Frank G. » Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:04 pm

May I humbly suggest that any donation/food/ride XP be attached to player rather than character- thus it doesn't expire. Thus if someone has contributed to 7-8 games and either gets bored with or loses a character that person gets a little better off than someone just coming in new. I'd say you get your last game (5xp) + donation xp.

I'd say its a good idea for a few reasons:
1) Encourages everyone to donate to the game more so than the value of 1 XP (it's 1 xp that stays with the player thus more valuable) which has 3 nice effects:
a) Loyalty to game- you're literally invested in the game.
b) Story tellers bear less, if any burden to run game.
c) Eventually game will start making more money than we spend allowing for the purchase of props and decorations to make game better- this worked very well for my game and Adams game when I was game treasurer.

2) Rewards player rather than character for donating and working for the game.

3) We can eventually do special events (think of Masquerade's Setite Auction as an example.)

Michael
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Re: Rules Changes

Postby Michael » Sun Dec 27, 2009 6:04 pm

3) We can eventually do special events (think of Masquerade's Setite Auction as an example.)


Ah...my first LARP.

Benabik
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Re: Rules Changes

Postby Benabik » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:12 pm

(I have split this topic from the announcement thread and locked the other one. The original thread was intended for announcements, I was just too lazy to lock it.)

Aaron also suggested that idea some time ago. It's a good one.

Frank G.
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Re: Rules Changes

Postby Frank G. » Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:47 pm

I'd add a suggestion that equipment/prop dontations that staff can make use of be added to the list as donations that way someone who can't swing $5 a game but is willing to spend the time or less money to grab something the staff needs can get the extra XP. To make it work you'd have to keep a donation wish list.

Maybe we can work a discount with Aarons Mom if we can get a full clean up crew to really superclean the Studio once or twice a month, stuff like that.

Maybe someone has connections to get flyers in a good spot or maybe has a blog that gets allot of local hits...

Examples:
Decks of cards, notbooks, pens and pencils
Good mood enhancer mix cd's that mminimize lyrics and just provide a good backdrop for certain types of scenes, "Mike's Combat mix" anyone?
Index cards
A nice ledger book for XP and Donation XP

Daemon Blacknight
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Re: Rules Changes

Postby Daemon Blacknight » Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:48 pm

okay this is long. but heres some semi rambling thoughts and ideas on franks proposed 'prestige xp' change.



attaching the bonus xp to the player would be like a much simplified prestige system. if i understand the proposal say you've accumulated 15 "bonus xp" one per game for the last 7 and a half months when you make a new character you would add that xp to the new character. so currently it would be 45+ 15 in the given example. in theory this could be open to abuse as someone could donate 5$ go far out of there way to pick up a player and bring food to a game and aply an extra 3 xp per game session to there permanent minimum. As far as i have seen though only the donation of money aspect of this is being used, i don't know if it merely slipped everyone's mind whenever food was brought to a game[ in fact i didn't even know food donations where listed until recently] or if it was meant to be removed from the list

The next issue of course would be to consider weather or not we care that a particular player might be accumulated a potential 60% more xp per game then others less 'generous'. Yes it is a significant increase in overall and minimum power for that players current character and future charecters but if someone is trully going to to the inconvenience to provide transportation to and from game to someone that dose not live directly in there way to game regularly donate monetarily and provide food to the game as a whole do they not deserve some form of recognition and reward? that is in fat the entire point of the camarilla prestige system, contrary to what many of us deride it as[ a self serving overly beruacratic means of keeping the older players in power]. its purpose is to encourage club activities loyalty and to give a meaningful incentive for learning how to interact with the bureaucracy.

Now to look at it in the situation of our significantly smaller game. We have site fees that must be made aon a regular basis. it is unfair and unrealistic to expect gerhnhart to pay out of pocket for us to be able to game. the method that has been chosen to garner these fees seems to be voluntary donations. this is exceptionally reasonable i have attended games where site fees where mandatory and several of thous games where well worth the money invested. i have even attended camarailla games with mandatory site fees and while i personally object to having to pay to be in a club and then pay again to attend an event the realities of economics must intrude over my moral dislike.

When considering any policy of this nature we must consider the extreme and long term implications. do we want players 3 years from now who have essenaitally 400 more xp then anyone else?
personally i dont see this as a problem. first of is the game even going to exis tha long from now. secondly if it dose how is it any different to a new player if an extremly powerfull charecter is a player charecter or a non player charecter. both [in this case] are played by a person who ostensibily has the sts trust and has spent significant amounts of time energy and money out of ther real world resources to devote to the betterment of the chronicle. such aperson who would have devoted literaly hundreds if not thousands of dollars so that we might all have a place to game and a game itself to enjoy should be given some form of lasting meaningfull reward.

But what if someone donates and drives yadda yadda but is a horrible player and frequently tries to cheat, metagame, eat babies, etc?
I honestly dont see how this is any different of a problem if the players charecter has 10 or 10 thousand xp, there all out of charecter concerns and should be addresed as such. yes a disruptive player can cause more damage with a stronger charecter then with a weak one however none of the solutions for dealing with such a player involve in chrecter means. and the storyteler is entirely likly and certainly should deal with any such player long before any artificuial stat in crease becomes a meaningfull problem. in any long running larp there will always be a power gap the longer the game the more meaningfull the gap.

duncan
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Re: Rules Changes

Postby duncan » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:10 pm

I think a player who goes out of his way for the game might be able to get 40-50 XP a year in "charity" XP. Compared to characters that have earned 130 XP a year (5 x 26) without any "charity", I'm not horribly worried about the new character having a little extra.

Also, I think it's good to reward people who want to put extra into this (any) game.

Duncan

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Joshua
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Re: Rules Changes

Postby Joshua » Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:58 pm

The prestige system is one thing that bothered me about the Camarilla. You have member classes, and that never quite settled with me. Of course, being able to start a new character with several hundred XP, and min-max it all you want always bugs me.

Still, that's not what actually bothered me about the system. What bothered me was what also bothered me about Revelations. When I played in Revelations it was made very clear early on that I was a "have not". No mater how much XP I had, no matter what actions I did, I could not affect any character who was a "have". My writeups were ignored, my actions meaningless. Where as someone else could rewite the entire plot of the game on their character's whim.

1 XP per game you donate shouldn't seem terribly much like dividing people into haves and have nots. Providing ways people can get that without spending money might be helpful to prevent everyone from feeling that way. It's also not like we will be using if for things like what clans, bloodlines, or covenants get approved, and we're not approving horribly min-maxed characters regardless of anything else. Yes it means that in the last "season" of this game, provided it actually, by some miracle, runs for the 5 years I have planned, someone who donated $500 over the course of the first four years will have an extra 100 xp to start with. Still, That will be for the last season, and when the game resets after that, the 'prestige' should reset. (Provided that people want to play in our next game, assuming this one actually does run it's full 5 year course.)

Still, I'm crazy and looking to a future that might not occur. But, when I think about this game, I have always seen it as a 5 year overarcing story, with a new story at the end if people wanted it.

Daemon Blacknight
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Re: Rules Changes

Postby Daemon Blacknight » Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:14 pm

if the concern is "haves" and "have nots" then the amount of xp on a persons charecter sheet isnt going to affect that in anyway. to compare to the cammarillas prestige system again. two people both going for globl aproval are theretically equally likly to get or not get the aproval regardless of what there mc is. you simply see more high mc people with high aproval things because they know how to aply for thngs and are less likly to make mistakes dureing the process. just like a person thats known gerhnhardt for five or six years and games with him regularly is more likly to know how to phrase a request then a brand new gamer is.

Benabik
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Re: Rules Changes

Postby Benabik » Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:44 pm

Quick replies

Frank G. wrote:equipment/prop dontations that staff can make use of be added to the list as donations

It's already on the list:
Rules Page wrote:
  • Bringing food, drink, or props for the game


Daemon Blacknight wrote:as someone could donate 5$ go far out of there way to pick up a player and bring food to a game and aply an extra 3 xp per game session to there permanent minimum.

You can earn one extra XP per game by doing something that helps game. We appreciate it if people do more than one thing a game, but I don't want this XP to swamp out XP from playing the game. The list isn't "one XP per thing off the list", it's "one XP for doing something off the list." Donations are the main reason the rule exists so I don't go broke trying to run game.

The food/transport/other additions to the list are in part to help people who can't afford donations. Food is the only reason I've given it out other than donations so far, but if someone does anything that helps keep game running they should let me know.

jaf
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Re: Rules Changes

Postby jaf » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:39 pm

i have a few things in my apartment i wont use again, maybe you would like to have it. I had a very active Halloween this past October and have a few costumes you might like to use like props, if interested, of course. I am not taking them back to DR (Dominican republic) so maybe you would like to use it or something, is just an idea i am giving out.
Besides its good if everyone bring something to the table doesn't have to be money, just giving a hand in some way is at least a consideration, i guess things that would help use play better and enjoy ourselves is enough. I don't see why is it so bad to spend 10 dollars a month just to help out and to have fun. In my case i usually give 20 dollars every 4 games because i hate bringing change every game. Also i think game is growing and with all the new members theirs going to have to be a break with some character to help out the ST which is good for them i guess... I am always available if help is needed. :)
ps. I have no idea what was the discussion about, i just wanted to post something... :p Its been very active lately, so... i had to write something.


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